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Old 15-05-2011, 11:25 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default A Better Champion Update

I thought I'd take the time to come up with a better idea for champs. I'm posting here mainly because I don't want to deal with getting banned on Turbine's forums for having a different idea to them. If anyone has a Turbine account and is brave enough, they can send a copy to Orion.


I'll start with the stances (all at 65):

Fervour
+ 1500 In-combat Power Regen
+ 30% Damage
Cannot Evade, Parry or Block
-30% Incoming Healing
Adds Fervour every 5 seconds

Ardour
+1800 In-combat Power Regen
+10% Damage
+800 In-combat Morale Regen (have to test to see if it would be suitable, can be raised or lowered accordingly)
Adds Fervour every 8 seconds

Glory
+ 1200 In-combat Power Regen
+ 50% Threat Generation
+ 500 Parry and Evade
+ 10% Incoming Healing
+ 1600 In-combat Morale Regen (again, will need to be tested but will mostly likely need to be raised to compensate lack of Shields and Critical Defence)
Adds Fervour every 11 seconds

Controlled Burn
+ 1800 In-combat Power Regen
+ 30% Damage
+ 1600 In-combat Morale Regen (again, needs testing)
Adds Fervour every 5 seconds
Activates all the Defeat Events as the best ones (e.g Glory Red Haze, Fervour True Heroics and Ardour Flurry).


Now for Defeat Events:

Red Haze
In Fervour - 1 extra Fervour every 15 seconds
In Ardour - 1 extra Fervour every 10 seconds
In Glory - 1 extra Fervour every 5 seconds

Blocking Blades
In Fervour - +1000 Morale Regen (parry rating is useless)
In Ardour - +500 Parry and +500 Morale Regen
In Glory - +750 Parry and +500 Morale Regen

Flurry (changed to permanent in combat in all stances)
In Fervour - -15% Attack Duration
In Ardour - -20% Attack Duration
In Glory - -10% Attack Duration

Exchange of Blows (changed to permanent in combat in all stances)
In Fervour - 50% chance to reflect 20% of all damage types
In Ardour - 50% chance to reflect 10% of all damage types
In Glory - 75% chance to reflect 15% of all damage types

Second Wind
In Fervour - +350 Power
In Ardour - +250 Power
In Glory - +450 Power

True Heroics (changed to permanent in combat in all stances)
In Fervour - +15% Incoming Healing
In Ardour - +5% Damage
In Glory - +200 In-combat Power Regen


Now for Class Traits (doesn't need much attention):

The Deadly Storm
All the same.

The Berserker
All the same.

The Martial Champion
At the Ready - +500 Parry Rating
Heavy Shield Use (Renamed to Quick Reflexes) - +500 Evade Rating

Legendaries
All same but:
Continuous Blood Rage - No Morale Per Second Cost and no negative Incoming Healing, but have no In-combat Power and Morale Regen instead.
Ferocious Strikes - 150% more damage than current, most people just use Brutal instead. (Making it roughly 600 per hit, or a total of 1,800).


I'm already getting a bit bored (as you can tell from my less than exotic ideas for Traits) so I'll have to add more later.

I'd welcome any other suggestions or pointers, it's difficult to keep track of changes in this little message box and I've no doubt made Champs OP'd somewhere.

Be aware that posts that say 'durr hurr that's stupid' will just be ignored. Constructive and well thought out criticism would be best.

Last edited by Boosie; 15-05-2011 at 03:06 PM.
 
Old 15-05-2011, 12:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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With those changes champs would be so OP, I like that
But i like ardour changes, makes it not useless

Last edited by Kamperfaktor; 15-05-2011 at 12:09 PM.
 
Old 15-05-2011, 12:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Considering the champs are going ballistic on the US forums as well, I doubt you'd get banned. These changes look good, and certainly doesn't make everything ridiculously complicated, though the whole in combat morale regeneration thing doesn't really make too much of a difference, in all honesty.
 
Old 15-05-2011, 12:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerenCamlost View Post
Considering the champs are going ballistic on the US forums as well, I doubt you'd get banned. These changes look good, and certainly doesn't make everything ridiculously complicated, though the whole in combat morale regeneration thing doesn't really make too much of a difference, in all honesty.
I suppose having the in combat morale regen raised a bit more it would be quite useful, especially since we'd be taking more damage without a shield.

Maybe taking it up to a noticeable level would work. I can't test it myself but it can't be too hard to the devs to do.
 
Old 15-05-2011, 12:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Dont like your fervour idea. I like how it is now, and i dont want more power problems. CBR change is bad too, we need ICPR. They just need remove DoT/healing penalty from CBR to make it true legendary.

Remove - Healing from fervour. Reason is simple, we are hurt by AoE most of the time. Ivar fight is best example here, tons of AoE damage and champs are getting less heals. Since Bosses in raids are hitting really hard, fervour tanking does not exist anymore, so that penalty is not needed anymore.

Flurry - Leave it how it is now.

EoB - OP in fervour with your idea.
 
Old 15-05-2011, 12:41 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Reduce costs of all skills so we no longer depend on stance ICPR.

Fervour
+35% Strike-line Damage
Cannot Evade
[4 trait-set bonus] Adds 1 Fervour on critical hits with Strike skills.
[Capstone] Wild Attack cool-down set to 0
Adds Fervour every 5 seconds.

Make Continuous Blood Rage a generic Legendary.
Turn Fight-On into the Strike-line capstone as above.


Ardour
+20% Blade-line Damage
Cannot Parry
[4 trait-set bonus] Critical hits with Blade skills applies a DoT.
[Capstone] Blade-wall cool-down set to 0
Adds Fervour every 5 seconds

Glory
+70% Threat Generation
+10% Incoming Healing
[4 trait-set bonus] +5% Parry and Evade
[Capstone] Gain 1 Fervour on Parry or Evade
Adds Fervour every 10 seconds

Continuous Blood Rage - Toggle skill
Immune to crowd control
+15% Damage
+100% attack skill cost
Healing has no effect

Controlled Burn - Lasts 15 seconds on 1 minute cool-down
Attacks that use Fervour deal +10% damage for every pip you have.

Last edited by defrule; 15-05-2011 at 01:01 PM.
 
Old 15-05-2011, 12:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosie View Post
I suppose having the in combat morale regen raised a bit more it would be quite useful, especially since we'd be taking more damage without a shield.
IMCR is not bad solo, but it is close to useless when grouping/tanking, so I don't get your obession with it.

Only thing that champion class really needed was some use for Ardour.
 
Old 15-05-2011, 12:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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@ OP

I thought I'd take the time to come up with a better idea for champs. I'm posting here mainly because I don't want to deal with getting banned on Turbine's forums for having a different idea to them. If anyone has a Turbine account and is brave enough, they can send a copy to Orion.

I will colour all my ideas on your post

I'll start with the stances (all at 65):

Fervour
+ 1500 In-combat Power Regen
+ 30% Damage
Cannot Evade, Parry or Block
-30% Incoming Healing
No positive In-combat Morale Regen
Adds Fervour every 5 seconds
30% is a bit too much in my opinion, but I like the idea with no positive in-combat morale regen, although I think its a bit too "punishing". Maybe considering increasing the champions skills power costs in this stance, over time. Meaning staying in a long fight for a fervour champ, will cost him a lot in the end, bringing him more into being an actual berserker, and not a endless fighter.

Ardour
+ 1800 In-combat Power Regen
+10% Damage
No negative Evade, Parry or Block ratings
No negative Incoming Healing
No positive Critical Defence Ratings
+ 300 In-combat Morale Regen (have to test to see if it would be suitable, can be raised or lowered accordingly)
Adds Fervour every 8 seconds
The fervour every 8 seconds looks a bit... meh to me. Liek every stance doesn't need to have this, and having fervour to be a berserker and fight faster, this will descrease fervour's performance. I don't like fervour pips every x seconds in any other stance than fervour, without red haze ofc. Like the more in-combat power regen, though I might wanna add a lowered power cost to aoe skills, and increased damage with aoe skills in this stance, as I like the idea of ardour being a more AOE focused stance, although I might dislike making it an "alone" AOE" stance. Maybe a special ardour ops bonus increasing damage for every mob you are fighting, not much though.

Glory
+ 1200 In-combat Power Regen
+ 50% Threat Generation
No positive Critical Defence Ratings
- 10% Damage
+ 500 Parry and Evade
+ 10% Incoming Healing
+ 600 In-combat Morale Regen (again, will need to be tested but will mostly likely need to be raised to compensate lack of Shields and Critical Defence)
Adds Fervour every 11 seconds

Don't like the fervour again as I said earlier. Don't see whats wrong with critical defence ratings tbh, and I might add that it is a quite nice bonus. Don't like the -% damage either, and agree pretty much with anything turbine said they'd like to do with glory. The inc healing and in combat morale regen is a bit, but I wont comment it on that, as I agree with tbh anything turbine said about glory.

Controlled Burn
+ 1800 In-combat Power Regen
+ 30% Damage
No negative Evade, Parry or Block ratings
No negative Incoming Healing
+ 300 In-combat Morale Regen (again, needs testing)
Adds Fervour every 5 seconds
Activates all the Defeat Events as the best ones (e.g Glory Red Haze, Fervour True Heroics and Ardour Flurry).
CB is sick enough being a fervour stance with no negatives. Giving a bonus to CB in realation to fervour is a bit meh in my opinion. Giving the name, CB is a more controlled rage - or berserker. Thus I don't see any point in not having it to be the exact same stance, but without -% healing, and with out taking off P/E/B. CB does not need have more damage, more morale regen or power regen or anything a like that.

Now for Defeat Events:

Red Haze
In Fervour - 1 extra Fervour every 15 seconds
In Ardour - 1 extra Fervour every 10 seconds
In Glory - 1 extra Fervour every 5 seconds
No. No. And no. Faster fervour - Berserker. Berserker - Fervour. 2 fervour and 1 every 15 sec is rather sick. Even without the z fervour every sec, I consider this skills as a big buff to my DPS already. Maybe in stead of being given fervour in the other stances, then giving something else? More crit? More threat?

Blocking Blades
In Fervour - +200 Morale Regen (parry rating is useless)
In Ardour - +500 Parry and +200 Morale Regen
In Glory - +750 Parry and +200 Morale Regen
Morale regen? You do know what happens when you balance all classes with buffing only do you? Blocking blades should give blocking blade bonus. Maybe an "Take the amount of block rating and add to the amount of parry rating in percent", that would be cool in glory. Reduce the duration. In fervour it will make you able to parry for a duration, while what? Every sec you get 200 parry rating and then when the duration expires, all gone. In ardour something cool with having every attack that hits you increase parry rating for a duration. When the duration expires you will no longer have increasingly parry rating, but the parry rating "buff" wont expire till your out of combat again. Or maybe something cool with, for every attacker increase parry rating by x.

Flurry (changed to permanent in combat in all stances)
In Fervour - -15% Attack Duration
In Ardour - -20% Attack Duration
In Glory - -10% Attack Duration
Again, fervour is the berserker! The wild berserker. Although I see actually no point in having flurry to chance from stance to stance. A flat attack duration reduction, the same percentage. Maybe a damage reduction to glory and ardour, but not fervour.


Exchange of Blows (changed to permanent in combat in all stances)
In Fervour - 50% chance to reflect 20% of all damage types
In Ardour - 50% chance to reflect 10% of all damage types
In Glory - 75% chance to reflect 10% of all damage types

Lets break it down:
Fervour - 10 hits - 1000 damage each
Would reflect - 5 hits - 200 damage each - 1000 damage total.

Ardour - 10 hits - 1000 damage each
Would reflect - 5 hits - 100 damage each - 500 damage total.

Glory - 10 hits - 1000 damage each
Would reflect - 7,5 hits - 100 damage each - 750 damage.

Now why have a tank stance with less reflect? Fervour is zeh berserker, I see why ardour would recieve better reflect than glory, but not why fervour should. Fervour should be the stance with lesser defence than the others. The stance WITHOUT defence bonuses from being in the stance.




Second Wind
In Fervour - +350 Power
In Ardour - +250 Power
In Glory - +450 Power
I don't really see the background for this tbh. While I have been able to find out why you have wanted the other changes, I simply don't know here. A 5 sec +2% damage bonus in fervour, a 4 sec powerful power-over-time effect on ardour, and a -4% damage in glory. On top of a small dose of power.


True Heroics (changed to permanent in combat in all stances)
In Fervour - +10% Incoming Healing
In Ardour - +5% Damage
In Glory - +150 In-combat Power Regen

5% damage is a bit too rewarding compared to 150 in combat power regen and 10% healing. 10% healing is a bit meh in my opinion, and 150 in-combat power regen is just, fail. Crit/attack duration in fervour, morale / penetration in ardour, amour / max morale in glory. Not too much, and taking in consideration that this skills has a long cd. Making it take more power, would still course this skill to be a superior choice in raids, and champions wouldn't be waiting when a healer or another team member asked for a little power pop.

Now for Class Traits (doesn't need much attention):
Don't be so sure about that.
The Deadly Storm
All the same.

The Berserker
All the same.

The Martial Champion
At the Ready - +500 Parry Rating and +200 morale?
Heavy Shield Use (Renamed to Quick Reflexes) - +500 Evade Rating and +200 Morale
A bit too much and too "needy" traits in my opinion. 200 morale is much, and 500 rating is indeed too.
Legendaries
All same but:
Continuous Blood Rage - No Morale Per Second Cost and no negative Incoming Healing, but have no In-combat Power and Morale Regen instead.
WUT? Remove our super duper freak out stormtrooper power stance? Out of the discussion. Controlled blood rage. Not controlled hippy stance. Things need to die in this stance, at a cost. We are not wardenguardians with a minstrel's lute on our back and a private RK. Controlled blood rage is in my opinion one of the most balanced stances. If I got a question which stance should not be changed of all, it would be CBR, not because its OP, it isn't. The stance is awesome as it is.

Ferocious Strikes - 150% more damage than current, most people just use Brutal instead.
So? They fixed ferocious strikes with the chance to make it cost no fervour after brutal. Makes it obvious to instant use this after brutal. +150% ? Are you sick!? No wait, you said 150% MORE damage :O chillax dude, ferocious strikes might need a bit increase, but I think it got a lot from the pvp set bonus and the pvp relics. Though a +3% damage buff wouldn't be out of the question.


I'm already getting a bit bored (as you can tell from my less than exotic ideas for Traits) so I'll have to add more later.

I'd welcome any other suggestions or pointers, it's difficult to keep track of changes in this little message box and I've no doubt made Champs OP'd somewhere.

Be aware that posts that say 'durr hurr that's stupid' will just be ignored. Constructive and well thought out criticism would be best.

I hope I haven't been a durr'hurr'er, and I will maybe come back with my own ideas of the stances and skills, but not now, and only maybe. Have a lot of things to work out in RL atm . I know a lot of things I have stated might be really hard to add and balanced.
 
Old 15-05-2011, 12:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felradir View Post
IMCR is not bad solo, but it is close to useless when grouping/tanking, so I don't get your obession with it.

Only thing that champion class really needed was some use for Ardour.
It's not an obsession, it was a way to keep a champs morale up when tanking without a shield and other defences.

If you make it high enough it wouldn't be useless at all. If you've ever played a minstrel and used their group +incombat morale regen, you'll notice it's a huge help. I often use it when I want to use other skills without healing for a bit.
 
Old 15-05-2011, 12:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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posted your ideas at us forum btw... do not except feedback tho;p
 
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