Go Back   LOTROcommunity Forum > Game Discussion > Monsterplay (Player vs. Player Combat)

Monsterplay (Player vs. Player Combat) Freeps and Creeps, or innocent bystanders, please use this forum for ALL discussions pertaining to PvP, thank you.

Thread Closed
Old 28-03-2008, 10:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
Tayh's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ettenmoors
Posts: 3,966

It would be nice if creeps got a resistance against the hordes of npc debuffs in EM.
I have never, ever seen any of my creeps resist any of the bear debuffs for instance.

I would like to see creeps get some resistance against this.
Old 29-03-2008, 05:27 AM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
Liia's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: ---> * here
Posts: 1,413

Originally Posted by redplague
- Tokens need a more active part within the moor's at the moment u hand them in for various thngs that help u but for those of us who basically pvp daily 12-15 hrs there is little or nothing to use tokens on. like many who have now been playing a whie im accumalating them like crazy i have +500 on my hunter now and 300+ on my burg i oen chests i roll ranger's i use them to call on help in keep fight's but they never seme to go down. ( something more that benefits the player might be nice.
I quote this from teh freepside, cause it could be used on creepside too. I got over the milion DP atm, I use trolls, I upgraded all my creep classes to the max for their ranks, I even use the DP in PVE parts for raids. But it seems to no go down. A use of DP for creeps and token for freep could be indeed nice. Like putting some defence in keeps for example.

2) Those anti-root-mezz-n'stuff talismans taht work for 15sec with a CD that is less and less for each higher rank (dont know the name of them) ... they cant be destroyed, vendored or traded. Basically, you buy one, it will stay in your bags till you delete your char ... Its pretty annoying and a waste of place. Boa, ok, but why undeletable. And I know its not a bug cause its written on it (afther you bought it) I'm almost rank 8 and wont be able to delete the rank 7 talisman to buy a rank8 one. If someone buy on every rank a talisman ... at rank 15 he ll have a full bag of useless stuff.

3) Idea for higher ranks (6-7 or more) a book that can contain all the maps tier 1, 2 and 3 so that it takes 1 place in your bags (its suposed to be paper, paper dont take that much place normally.

4) A post system for the creeps. Its annoying to ask someone if he wanna help you to give your alt cash or stones. A post system to mail to friends or yourself.

5) A bank could be nice too like on freepside. No need for 5 boxes, 1 like it used to be in the beginning with the freeps is more than enough.
Old 29-03-2008, 06:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
Earion's Avatar
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 340

Originally Posted by Muccker
In one ear out the other but here you go:

Session play
Better notification of the ranger's 1-shot (or near enough 1 shot on high ranked creeps) and some kind of indication of where the shot's about to come from so we have a chance of escaping it. If only we could move out of it's AOE the way you would for a troll..if it gets that close.

Crowd control
Lack of immunities after using a pot and the sheer one-sided CC. Make the warleaders 'snap out of skill' have a 10 second cooldown or allow the new class to give us some kind of protection from it all.

I'm honestly getting tired of playing my warg and getting tracked every 5 seconds. It can be spammed as much as the freeps like (true?) yet if we were to do it it'd cost 9s a go every minute. I think a warg should be able to track anyone as it'd make more sense for them to be better trackers than a Black Arrow.

PVE for upgrades in a PVP zone
We could have easily bought what's being offered from DoF from provisioner or trainer for dp/cash so my conclusion is that it's there purely for the freep as an incentive to do what exactly apart from ruin it for those of us that were there when there was no rewards for going out and fighting everyday - just fighting for the fight. Freep or Creep. It's sad but most of those freeps and creeps have either left or packing and the new crowd, the teal seekers, dp hunters and infamy/renown farmers are coming in trying to farm as quickly as possible in order to get their new gear not giving a damn how they go about it because they're still in their PVE mentality.

Hunters and their DF
The cooldown for it needs to be increased significantly if it isn't going to be disabled in the Ettenmoors and/or one of the creep classes needs a similar skill or skill interrupter to stop the DF from happening so an induction timer and/or lengthy cooldown (1 hour) is needed if it's not getting removed.

That or once they use DF in combat we should get our infamy we would have gotten if the hunter did die without using DF.

I'd like to see multiple selectable graveyards for each side to pick where they want to spawn. That way when you get people looking for 'good fights' they have to look a bit harder.

I'm really annoyed at our banner being nerfed yet the captain can throw theirs down as much as they like. Battles are so fluid that even if you were to run right into the freep group while they're on the tyrant for example - all they have to do is move away and continue beating him up. The way battles are moving and changing so quickly it's really pointless thing to have now and you have to work with other Warleaders and their placements. I'd like to see its cooldown back to 2 minutes. Freeps complain that it stops all melee combat but then again so does tar.

Sticky Tar
I don't see why this shouldn't affect both sides. It should. Perhaps if it did it wouldn't be (ab)used as much as it is. Have you ever tried to run through the front door with tar splattered all over the corridor with hunters standing at the other end and cheeky champs running through it smacking you and running back before the creep has even got in..

Base Camping
I'd like to see some massive buffs/debuffs for each side at their home base. If freeps are camping grams then they get massive dread and stealthed freeps get pulled out of stealth when they're close to Grams and vice versa. There's no way you should be able to get that close to an enemy stronghold without some serious repercussions.

Infamy/renown in raids
I thought this would be a good idea originally but now that I see it in action I can't help but feel like it's ruining things even more. There's no small battles now it's raid v raid to see who can get the most renown, infamy, destiny points and tokens of valour the fastest and it's causing performance issues for both sides not to mention it's a bloody boring way to fight.

The stars should be removed. All it does is give each side reasons not to fight. It changes a persons playstyle and they're no longer willing to take the risks a non ranked/star hugger would. If there was no stars then maybe more fights would be to the death rather than DF/HIPS/DIPS when things aren't going your way. If there was no reason to fear death other than travelling from the graveyard then both sides would have a more enjoyable time.
I agree on muccer on all his points.

An addition I'd like to have 2 Emoor PVP sets. One with lower stats and obtainable from rank 1 to R5. The other kit availiable at r10. One kit for the PVEers, another for the ones that put the time in.
I can't really think of a resolution to the IP in raid vs group. Before you got too little in a raid when to raid was prudent. All we can hope for is reducing the numbers in ettenmoors to the more serious PVPers. ATM there's too many peeps there that arn't interested in testing their skills vs a human mind, they're there to get R6-8 for the imba teals.

I do think it's a good idea to have something to draw newer players into PVP. I don't believe in giving them some of the best weps and armor in the game for standing in the middle of raids for 2 weeks, leeching ranks.


Last edited by Earion; 29-03-2008 at 07:12 AM.
Old 29-03-2008, 07:19 AM   #14 (permalink)
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 10

Crippling Bite: Make it able to stack.

At the moment, one of the big factors that stops wargs dealing with burglar packs (or in some cases any other single freep) is the fact that our crippling bite doesn't stack and anyone else can convert my crippling bite into a DoT or a stun.

Aside from the fact that is annoying to have your fighting technique open to being disrupted by someone else using Savage Fangs or Pounce, it pretty much renders the Savage Fangs skill useless against other player characters. I don't see a justification for them not being able to stack apart from it would be as annoying as the freep's counterpart skill. It still wouldn't be as effective as the Burglar's Dust in the Eyes skill.

Even if it weren't made to stack, something could be done about the Crippling Bite / Savage Fangs situation. Possibly make it so that rather than Savage Fangs converting a Crippling Bite into a DoT, that it does it's normal attack effects but had a percentage chance of automatically being converted into a DoT?
Old 29-03-2008, 09:06 AM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Member
PyscoFalcon's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,635

I agree with all the CC notes.

Session play should be removed again or trolls only allowed between grams and Lug (to stop camping) and rangers between GV and TR.

Fed up of rangers camping grams and Spawn points. Several times I've been one-shotted by a ranger whilst still on the spawnpoint.

Oh and rangers 1 shotter has to go. Was hit for 6k outside grams a few days ago. (that was enougth to kill my rank 3 warg AND my rank 2 Reaver)

And no trolls don't have a 1 hit insta kill. For one you have to build up rampage to actually do any damge, you can see and hear it comming a mile away and LMs can easily drain it and stun to nothing.

Rangers can stealth, can't be heard, can be buffed and have anti-stun put on them etc - so not right.
Old 29-03-2008, 11:12 AM   #16 (permalink)
Twitches / Corwyn's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 48

I dont think DF flight should be altered to be honest, its fine how it is otherwise it will open doors to people complaining abouts HIPS and DIPS. You fight a hunter, and you expect them to DF unless they get stunned in time or are on cooldown. I am intrigued about an infamy reward however, because we never truly kill a player, just defeat their will to fight forcing them to retreat and rally at a respawn point. Well, DF is a form of retreat, abeit a voluntary one, and some kind of reward for forcing a player into this state or a penalty for the hunter is a possibility. Perhaps a fixed 1 infamy reward (as there are so many hunters I dont want to see this abused), or alternatively which I like more, a loss of rating on the freep player for their act of cowardice... they are after all supposed to be hero characters.

Crowd control does need to be looked into as stated in previous posts. Since book 12 it is very hard now to acquire money as a creep to buy anti cc potions. Personally, I would like to see the potions become alot cheaper making them easier to acquire. Currently - they are 90% useless at the moment too because once used, despite an immunity to stun for a few seconds appearing on your health bar, you can immediately be re dazed, burlgar riddled or rerooted. I think the effectiveness of our stun immunities be addressed so we cannot be immediately dazed/riddled/rooted, and of course better diminishing returns implemented. It will make freeps tactically apply their CC instead of just spamming it for the quick kill.

I dont know, if the developers are planning to tone down or remove some healing skills with the release of the new monster play class from the warleader, but they need to consider the in game ramifications of a pure healer class being singled out, and being easeir to kill than a warleader too, against the ramification of the mass arsenal of the freep crowd control disabling the pure healer class too. My greatest concern is that we may loose our ability to be healed. I never went to connect but I always assumed the defiler class was an orc defiler, but I hear mention of a knarled tree looking creature/shaman. If the new healer class is an orc, the current orc racial traits may need to be reviewed as they are currently geared to wards a melee class rather than healing/support.

I personally dont like session play, so I do not play them, but if they are to remain in game, they do need to be fine tuned some more. Mainly, owning no keeps = opposing faction cannot use session play, and upon loosing the last keep, any active opposing session players are sent back to the quest npcs to finish their quest, or be unable to leave the factional base until their is a keep to help retake. The ranger "one shot" skill does need to be investigated, it is very over powered, with little hope a creep player can do to prevent. I always hear troll players moan they cant do anything due to power drain... perhaps they should be made immune to make them abit more effective or only drained to half their power pool.

Some kind of anti camping measures need to be impossed around all GYs and faction bases to discourage such activities, and force better pvp fights. Being camped is very boring. Some people have suggested a diminishing yield of returns, buffs for defenders/debuffs for attackers, or perhaps if enough people die within radius of GY's some NPCs are summoned and used to help break/scatter the campers... from summoned tyrants/captain generals, to shades rising from defeated corpses... which cant be stunned forcing the campers to fight these mobs or retreat.

I do like the suggestion of selecting your respawn point, it makes no sense when you die nearer lug graveyard and respawn at TR graveyard... it also creates a random element because the opposing faction will not know where we will rally from.

Allow crude to poor maps to be purchased with spirit stones, currently the keeps dont stay in creep control long enough for new creep players to quest and get their maps. Im not sure if this should be for all maps or keep the good maps based with the keep quests. Obviously player titles will have to be earned the old fashioned way.

At the end of the day, creep players are in the EM for the fight and challenge, with no reward for their PvE counterparts unlike the 80% of the freep population who are only here now for the teal armour rewards. This is not a comment asking for rewards for playing a creep, but a reminder of why we are here playing. Make the Freeps work for their special items, rather than handing it to them on a plate, because if the creep population dwindles any lower, there will be no creeps left to kill for renown, and there will be alot of unhappy freep players wanting their teal rewards.
Old 29-03-2008, 12:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
Senior Member
ASnogarD's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK, S.Wales
Posts: 808

My opinions playing a Creep in the Ettenmoors:

I am rather alarmed hearing talk of removing/nerfing the Warleaders healing ability when the defiler comes in, the single target and group/fellowship wide AoE heals are what gives my Warleader some survivialbility in the 'moors, remove this and you will have another nerfed to useless class to keep the Weavers company.
Why is it always take whenever the devs give to the Creeps.

With that out the way...

Putting aside the normal ' CC, DF and Burg ' complaints, the biggest isssue I see is the lag, the engine just simply cannot cope with the numbers at the moment, I can play the PvE with maximun settings...but drop to medium settings with special effects disabled to get a playable state in PvMP when the Creeps and Freeps clash, a number of my kinsmen (and kinswomen) are unable to even play with all the setting down.
Priority 1: Find out what is causing so work for the engine in the 'moors and eliminate it, alternatively the devs may have to look at instancing the moors to limit and control numbers.

The original design for PvMP called for the Creeps to outnumber the Freeps, so Creep abilities were set to be less than the Freep abilities so the Freeps could use superior skill sets to overcome the Creep numbers... this is no longer the case, the Freeps hold both the numbers and the superiors skill sets.

Dont nerf the Freeps, or at least dont allow the nerfs to effect the PvE outside the 'moors. A better strategy would be to bring up the Creeps to be able to cope with the Freep numbers.

Remove session play in the 'moors... a Ranger is more of a nuisance than a effective combatant...he serves only to ruin a players enjoyment, no PvP player will be happy with a stealthed 1 shotter lurking about.

Basically I want the lag removed, a fair chance in battle and get rid of Rangers.

Thanks for reading
Old 29-03-2008, 11:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
Senior Member
Orla's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 397

1 . Would like to see pots available to buy with Destiny Points .
2 . Weaver Trapdoor should be immune to stun .
3 . Weaver should be able to drop from windows, ledges etc with no penalties .
4 . Weaver Steelweave skill should make Web immune to stuns breaking it .
Old 30-03-2008, 06:08 AM   #19 (permalink)
Senior Member
Baelhoth's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Finland
Posts: 289

  • More uses for destiny points
    - Right now I'm Rank 5, and the next DP-purchased trait is available at Rank 7
  • Cheaper prices or easier gathering of money
    - Equipping & changing used traits is expensive to our budget, so are potions, food etc.
  • Lag
    - A big nuisance, really. Bigger battles are very difficult to cope with no matter what hardware you have.

My class, the Blackarrow:
  • Increase our rate of fire
    - Compared to Hunters, our bows are awfully slow

  • Give us more damage or a different damage type
    - We have Common damage and the damage we do is in no way compareable to that of Hunters, while our bows are supposed to be strong and we pull them to a 'deadly effect'. With the slowness of our bows, Flaming Arrow and Screaming Shafts just don't fix this defect. We usually run out of power anyway, after shooting a few special arrows.
  • Poison Arrows
  • Sound effect
    - Where is it? We draw our bows to a 'deadly effect' and still we hear no sound. Please, make our bows sound nasty (imagine the sound of Lurtz's bow in the Fellowship of the Ring, for example) - or at least, give them at least some kind of sound effect.

Last edited by Baelhoth; 30-03-2008 at 06:11 AM.
Old 30-03-2008, 09:48 AM   #20 (permalink)
Senior Member
Toasty_G_Star's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: England , Great Britain
Posts: 1,279

Trolls and rangers : I think they should both be immune to stuns snares/slows and power drains .
Thread Closed


As per 31.05.2011. All times are UTC.