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Monsterplay (Player vs. Player Combat) Freeps and Creeps, or innocent bystanders, please use this forum for ALL discussions pertaining to PvP, thank you.

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Old 28-03-2008, 12:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
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A COG representative has posted in this thread Creeps of the Ettenmoors!

Creeps of the Ettenmoors!

The idea of this thread is for those who actively take part in playing as a Monster / Creep to voice your feedback in a consolidated thread. Use this thread to raise your issues and feedback on everything relating to Player vs. Monster Player in The Lord of the Rings Online (from a Creep's perspective).

This can be anything from:

- Creep Classes, Skills and Traits
- The lay of the land
- The systems currently active within the Ettenmoors (Ettendeep, Session play, keep switching etc.)
- Your personal experiences
- Your suggestions & tweaks
- The effect you think the new Monster Player class will have on the current player experience.

Intermingling between creep players and freep players is permitted for now, however do not let it detract from the thread's topic.
Old 28-03-2008, 12:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Reaver: Resilence is still bugged againt Burglars Riddle - Hamstring: make the snare the same amount as Hunters..

Tweaks: Longer immunities on all CC including traps

Some kind of fix on tar so it doesnt get abused - not meaning to remove it but so that it does get used in a more proper way. Maybe longer apply time? Costs more to use?

Suggestion: Give 50% infamy each time a hunter DF - since he/she lost.

Keeps: Make Tribes/Kinship able to claim keeps and "Upgrade them" for a cost, make basic keeps easier to take in that way making claiming keeps needed. Have 3 levels of Keep...

Last edited by Coinchin; 28-03-2008 at 01:14 PM.
Old 28-03-2008, 01:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Disappear is a bit fuhbar. Basically i can press the button then 4 seconds later get pulled out of stealth by an lm's stun/mez thingy

This kinda infringes on lay of the land as well. Basically one of the problems atm is that there are long range standoffs, with arrows plinging accross the gap. What you really need is a large(ish) area of ruins or something, that will take LOS to a very short distance, and will allow the melee classes to shine. Of course you have to make it worthwhile going there, or you could just put it outside grams - freeps always wanna go there

As Coinchin said, the sticky tar is a real problem - not to mention a wonder how they fit all that tar in their pockets It affects a huge area, many a time freeps have actually sealed themselves off on tol bridge by laying tar - 1 tar covers the whole of the span between the supports - stopping melee from occuring.

Session Play:
honestly speaking, not sure if you keep watch or anything, but i have far too many times seen rangers camping grams when the map is all blue. Frankly thats a joke to allow that to happen. I think session play needs to be blocked if all keeps are in your hands.

New Monster Player Class:
Well i think that it will make life easier for the creeps, but maybe also the freeps. It also depends what (if any) changes you make to the Warleaders. As the healers atm im guessing you will take most of this ability away (maybe removing the single target heal), replacing it with other buffs/debuffs.
It could make life easier for freeps in that having 1 overall healing class they can focus on them as targets much as minstrels get targetted by us. killing the healers will make us easier to gank.

If i think of anything else i will post again.......back to work i suppose
Old 28-03-2008, 01:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Something needs to be done about CC. Going from full health to death in a blinding flash of stun/root/daze gets very old very quickly. I'm not even sure anything drastic needs to be done, perhaps simply adding an immunity to the "break free" potions for 8 seconds so you can't be restunned or rerooted immediately after would do it. Reducing the timer from 30 seconds to 10 seconds as I've seen mentioned elsewhere won't help in this as it's the sheer volume of CC that is the problem and not it's length.

[edit]Session play - Something like a constant drain on morale and power when Rangers are at Lug or grams side of there and when trolls are at TR or GV side of there would stop either side using session play to grief other players. It would also make it easier for each side to keep one keep as there own.

Last edited by Forkin!; 28-03-2008 at 01:30 PM.
Old 28-03-2008, 01:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I don't think the LM stun imunity should give imunity to roots aswell. Otherwise it should have a longer cooldown so they can't just spam it on themselves, or higher powercost maybe. As a spider it's pretty frustrating they can root daze stun you all the time but you can't even hit them with the single target root. Might post more as it pops up in my mind

Last edited by epiphone; 28-03-2008 at 03:13 PM.
Old 28-03-2008, 02:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Balance ranged DPS and CC.

Add immunity timers to pots.

If multiple respawn points are available, give the defeated player the option to select which one to res at.

Edit: missed grieving rangers, nothing beats finally getting one over on a freep, only to speed the next hour being 4k+fire dot’ed to death.


Last edited by Tingagel; 28-03-2008 at 02:48 PM. Reason: Missed one
Old 28-03-2008, 02:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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A few of the major downsides of being a creep at the moment to me are, mainly, the lack of CC we have, the huge amouts that the freeps seem to have. In comparison, all freep classes have some kind of stun/fear/root ability. Whereas, on the creep side, only wargs and spiders have the ability to stun, spiders (and Ba's (2s)) only the ability to root. Reavers and warleaders lack pretty much any CC.

Same thing goes on the defensive side, freep LMs have the ability to stop all incoming CC from the creep side for 1 minute. Its not hard to spam stun immunity on a small group, which is going to enable them to fight easily, with no trouble of getting away.

Another problem i have, is with tar, and spider webs. They should definately affect both sides, because at the moment, they are overused, and perhaps even abused to the point where it brings a halt to PvP.

Trolls, and rangers are overpowered in their own rights, but i guess thats how theyre designed to be.

The lay of the land in general promotes fights between NPC hotspots of each side, like Tol Ascarnen to the Elf camp, or Tol Ascarnen to the Orc camp. These fights are never really very dynamic and using turns into "farming", due to the overwhelming ranged DPS of hunters, and the lack of ranged DPS creeps have.

Oh, and DF is stupidly overpowered.
Old 28-03-2008, 04:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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In one ear out the other but here you go:

Session play
Better notification of the ranger's 1-shot (or near enough 1 shot on high ranked creeps) and some kind of indication of where the shot's about to come from so we have a chance of escaping it. If only we could move out of it's AOE the way you would for a troll..if it gets that close.

Crowd control
Lack of immunities after using a pot and the sheer one-sided CC. Make the warleaders 'snap out of skill' have a 10 second cooldown or allow the new class to give us some kind of protection from it all.

I'm honestly getting tired of playing my warg and getting tracked every 5 seconds. It can be spammed as much as the freeps like (true?) yet if we were to do it it'd cost 9s a go every minute. I think a warg should be able to track anyone as it'd make more sense for them to be better trackers than a Black Arrow.

PVE for upgrades in a PVP zone
We could have easily bought what's being offered from DoF from provisioner or trainer for dp/cash so my conclusion is that it's there purely for the freep as an incentive to do what exactly apart from ruin it for those of us that were there when there was no rewards for going out and fighting everyday - just fighting for the fight. Freep or Creep. It's sad but most of those freeps and creeps have either left or packing and the new crowd, the teal seekers, dp hunters and infamy/renown farmers are coming in trying to farm as quickly as possible in order to get their new gear not giving a damn how they go about it because they're still in their PVE mentality.

Hunters and their DF
The cooldown for it needs to be increased significantly if it isn't going to be disabled in the Ettenmoors and/or one of the creep classes needs a similar skill or skill interrupter to stop the DF from happening so an induction timer and/or lengthy cooldown (1 hour) is needed if it's not getting removed.

That or once they use DF in combat we should get our infamy we would have gotten if the hunter did die without using DF.

I'd like to see multiple selectable graveyards for each side to pick where they want to spawn. That way when you get people looking for 'good fights' they have to look a bit harder.

I'm really annoyed at our banner being nerfed yet the captain can throw theirs down as much as they like. Battles are so fluid that even if you were to run right into the freep group while they're on the tyrant for example - all they have to do is move away and continue beating him up. The way battles are moving and changing so quickly it's really pointless thing to have now and you have to work with other Warleaders and their placements. I'd like to see its cooldown back to 2 minutes. Freeps complain that it stops all melee combat but then again so does tar.

Sticky Tar
I don't see why this shouldn't affect both sides. It should. Perhaps if it did it wouldn't be (ab)used as much as it is. Have you ever tried to run through the front door with tar splattered all over the corridor with hunters standing at the other end and cheeky champs running through it smacking you and running back before the creep has even got in..

Base Camping
I'd like to see some massive buffs/debuffs for each side at their home base. If freeps are camping grams then they get massive dread and stealthed freeps get pulled out of stealth when they're close to Grams and vice versa. There's no way you should be able to get that close to an enemy stronghold without some serious repercussions.

Infamy/renown in raids
I thought this would be a good idea originally but now that I see it in action I can't help but feel like it's ruining things even more. There's no small battles now it's raid v raid to see who can get the most renown, infamy, destiny points and tokens of valour the fastest and it's causing performance issues for both sides not to mention it's a bloody boring way to fight.

The stars should be removed. All it does is give each side reasons not to fight. It changes a persons playstyle and they're no longer willing to take the risks a non ranked/star hugger would. If there was no stars then maybe more fights would be to the death rather than DF/HIPS/DIPS when things aren't going your way. If there was no reason to fear death other than travelling from the graveyard then both sides would have a more enjoyable time.

I'm tired and spent. d(-_-)b
Old 28-03-2008, 04:59 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Crowd control ruins the game for every creep. Doesn't matter if it's 1v5 of 40v30, creeps will get slowed, stunned and snared to oblivion. They have no way to counter it, they can't remove them and their CC abilities are horrible.
Any player's speed shouldn't be able to drop down under 60% of their normal running speed, it just takes any fun of the game out when you're moving slower than a snail. Also, roots and mezzes should only last for 10 seconds, second time 5 seconds and after that they should be immune till they're out of combat. (Both sharing the same diminishing returns) Stuns should work only once on a player, no matter how long the stun. That would encourage more melee fights instead the usual boring pew pew. Some LMs might complain, but the amount of CC freeps have at the moments is just ridiculous.
CC *is* the main problem with pvp.
Old 28-03-2008, 05:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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For DF... How about, in the Ettenmoors, it sends you to the closest GY whether your side owns it or not. That way people would use it situationally and not when they are camping GY, etc.
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