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Old 11-08-2010, 11:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Post Elven Guide: Q&A, Suggestions and Comments

Hello!

In an attempt to keep the current Elven Guide, which has amassed a total of 13421 views (between all variations of the Guide) as I write this, clean, I have decided to make this Q&A thread; where any lore-questions regarding Elves (and the guide itself) will be answered.

Suggestions for the guide, also, are accepted!

So, I eagerly await when I can start answering your Elven Questions!

===
UPDATE
===


Since Turbine are taking over LotRO EU, this guide will be transferred either to their Forums* or to a website of my making.

*The reason I am not intent on placing it on the Lorebook, is because it has already been vandalized there - by peoples who were intent on putting forth their ideas, against the books.

Last edited by Andarne; 26-04-2011 at 02:11 PM.
 
Old 23-08-2010, 07:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I might've passed this in my reading;

But there are Half-Orcs/Half-Men, and since committing murder to an Elf is deemed the highest possible sin to perform, would this count as a sin?
 
Old 24-08-2010, 11:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Interesting question, Loor.

Tolkien said in one passage that the Males of Elf-kind were more prone to going to war, because of a belief that taking life countered preserving it (females were considered life-preservers due to them bearing and caring for children).

When writing the guide, I used the term 'murder' to refer to the slaying of a Man, Hobbit, Elf or Dwarf who was essentially 'good'; ergo, not allied with Sauron/Morgoth's forces.

Now, ask any Elf about slaying an Orc; the answer will be the positive, that it must be done to preserve the pure Children of Illvitar; and to stop the increase of the imitations.

As for a Half-orc, which is essentially Half Orc, Half Human; the being would be evil, essentially; the parent (on the human side) may have been forced into the breeding process. Slaying once such beast would not weigh heavily on an Elf's conscience.
 
Old 25-08-2010, 10:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Hey, has been wondering about one thing since first time i read the silmarillon, which is:

If a elf who have commited NO sin at all ( a hard way to live, but surely doable for elves)
will then this elf pass right into valinor?

i mean, when a normal elf die, they come the halls of mandos (his name in the norwegian version, i have not bothered to memorize the names of the valar in english) to cleanse they "soul" before they are realeased into valinor (a elf who have commited a lot of sin will remain there for a longer time than a elf who have commited few sins)

sorry for a bunch of long ()s but i felt i had to mention it :P

ps. i must say i really admire you for the highrank tolkien fanatic you are i must say i only count my self as a lowrank one :S never even taken my time to read the untold stories
 
Old 25-08-2010, 05:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The act of sin and virtue are not ruling, I would say; Good and Evil do hold much sway in Tolkien's writings, and the only form of sin that might have an impact on the Elves (and their afterlife) would be the kinslaying, as the sons of Feanor spoke of the terrible dark (Possibly the void).

However, the only way an Elf can directly travel to Valinor is through not dying - by taking the Straight Road from Middle-earth. All Elves, once their bodies have been destroyed, go to the Halls of Mandos; that's the rule (unless they choose to linger, but this was not written on much by Tolkien). Mandos (the Valar, whom is named after the halls of his residence), guards the dead and is the master of Fate (of Arda. The fate of the Valar and everything, ultimately, is under Eru's control.)

Last edited by Andarne; 14-11-2010 at 08:59 PM.
 
Old 27-08-2010, 08:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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When an Elf breaks one of the Elven laws are they looked down upon or are they taken into questioning by higher subjects of authority, if so, what happends then?
 
Old 28-08-2010, 12:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The Elven Laws were set after the Elves went to Valinor, summoned by Orom (And the Valar as a whole).

The first law that is noted, is that Elves must not return from the Dead; and it is not in their power or lawful for them to do so. Mandos alone holds that right, but he will do so only under the command of Manw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laws and Customs of the Eldar
The Eldar then asked: 'How shall the will or doom be known?' It was answered: 'Only by recourse to Manwe and by the pronouncement of Namo. In this matter it shall not be lawful for any of the Eldar to judge his own case. For who among the Living can discern the thoughts of the Dead, or presume the dooms of Mandos?'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laws and Customs of the Eldar
Therefore it was said: 'Who among the Living can presume the dooms of Mandos?'

Upon this the Eldar comment: 'Innocence or guilt in the matter of death is spoken of, because to be in any way culpable in incurring this evil (whether by forcing others to slay one in their defence against unjust violence, or by foolhardiness or the making good of rash vaunts, or by slaying oneself or wilfully withdrawing the fea from the body) is held a fault. Or at the least, the withdrawal from life is held a good reason, unless the will of the fea be changed, for the fea to remain among the Dead and not to return. As for guilt in other matters little is known of the dealings of Mandos with the Dead. For several reasons: Because those who have done great evil (who are few) do not return. Because those who have been under the correction of Mandos will not speak of it, and indeed, being healed, remember little of it; for they have returned to their natural courses.
As the above quotes tell us, the Valar have the ruling authority; and 'sins' will be looked upon when the fa (spirit) goes to the Halls of Mandos. Therefore, we can easily confirm that the Valar alone hold the right to change, enforce and rebuke the laws; and that the severity of them, and the possibility for eternal lingering in the Halls of Mandos (not a happy place), would deter any Elf from breaking them.

The severity of what occurred with Finw, when he took a second wife (and the only Elf to do so in Tolkien Literature), is reason enough not to re-marry; for his new family caused strife that led to the kinslayings.

Thus, the Valar alone have the right to judge the Eldar, and the Doom of Mandos falls upon any that break the laws; yet they would be so deterred by the thought of said doom, that few would break it willingly, if none at all. Since the Valar alone hold the authority, then they alone the Elves would answer to. Think of it like a child answering to his parents, and nobody else.

Last edited by Andarne; 21-11-2010 at 02:43 PM.
 
Old 04-09-2010, 05:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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i think it's a shame the way elf champions and hunters too are holding their weapons.. i know sounds lame.. but when my champ holds his 2-handed its like he wants to stab the person behind him... why dont hold them like the human champs?
 
Old 05-10-2010, 08:38 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwinrandir24 View Post
i think it's a shame the way elf champions and hunters too are holding their weapons.. i know sounds lame.. but when my champ holds his 2-handed its like he wants to stab the person behind him... why dont hold them like the human champs?
Although I wouldn't consider this a lore question, please let me hazard an answer:

There are many different fighting stances known in the real world, and therefore it is plausible that Elves in Middle-earth had their own styles.

The Orcs were not noted for their intelligence, perhaps the image of being un-ready would lull them into a false sense of security?

I hope that answers your question, and happy RP'ing
 
Old 06-10-2010, 06:37 AM   #10 (permalink)
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You might want to have the attested "Mae govannen" (literally "Well met") and the reconstructed "Mae tollen" ("Well come") amongst the greetings. Is there a source to "Lend and"? It seems quite blunt and un-Elven to me (two one-syllable words ending in consonants).

Also, understandably you've included quite a lot about Elven wedding - though a note could be paid to the fact that once the pair considers themselves to be married, they effectively are married. (Which might also be a problem, since Elves do not re-marry - while Elves do know when they "meet the right one", RPers necessarily don't. About source, I think it was is the Laws and Customs, but would need to check.)

I might have a few other ideas, as well, but I'd need to prepare my thoughts better.
 
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